Poll

Who's the best pure climber?

Rafael Ojeda (CC_Porco_Jones)
1 (100%)
Christian Meling (JaviTeamCCF)
0 (0%)
Gabor Gera (Sacido)
0 (0%)
Gedeon Zola (EscuredoTeam)
0 (0%)
Hans Detleff Otte (FlandriaFussion)
0 (0%)
Norman Battle (Sacido)
0 (0%)
Tito Obrist (BetisCFF)
0 (0%)
Ivar Höyland (JaviTeamCCF)
0 (0%)
Richard King (Sacido)
0 (0%)
Patrick Saxon (FlandriaFussion)
0 (0%)
Another one
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 1

Author Topic: Season 35. 'The climbing Gods'  (Read 980 times)

FlandriaFussion

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Season 35. 'The climbing Gods'
« on: December 14, 2017, 12:12:06 am »
 I open this new thread basically cause im feeling this season is really really an special one in terms of depth, quality and variety of rookie pure climbers and Grand Tour riders. Since ive been playing CFF, date beginning of 2016, i've never seen something similar, this quantity of new class star riders in the Mountain, Mountain & Hills and Grand Tours potential terrains.

This is why I open this new thread. To ponderate the level, to compare, discuss, make the ranks, to stablish any sort of correlation with other seasons, to level each nation potential...

First I start with the poll, who do you consider the best pure climber prospect of 19 years right now? I'm gonna talk about em later...
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 01:02:00 am by FlandriaFussion »

FlandriaFussion

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Re: Season 35. 'The climbing Gods'
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2017, 12:50:00 am »
I will only copy the stats of the ones who we've seen on the forum.

Starting my analysis...

- Rafael Ojeda : MONSTER Climber, there's a long time I haven't seen a pure climber like him at 19. Tremendous level from the colombian with top high Mountain, nice Recovery and Downhill and Super Technique... but as all heros he has his Achiless heel; the TeamWork.
This is him a few weeks ago :

Rafael Ojeda Edad : 19 Sueldo : 826
Resistencia : 67 Sprint : 4 Montaña : 70
LLano : 37 Pavés : 27 Tecnica : 74
Descenso : 67 Colinas : 25 Agresividad : 41
Crono : 11 TraEqui : 4 Experiencia : 0

- Christian Meling : The Norwegian leader for the Pure Mountain stages is the franchise rider of JaviTeamCCF. He's very balanced on his climbing skills and don't have any weakness. He has probably even brighter future than Ojeda for compete the 1st division GT High Mountain Stages as he excells on TeamWork.  Future Superstar.
This is him freshly promoted at the beginning of season :

Christian Meling   Edad : 19   Sueldo : 845
Resistencia : 54   Sprint : 10   Montaña : 67
LLano : 22   Pavés : 24   Tecnica : 61
Descenso : 61   Colinas : 12 Agresividad : 24
Crono : 44   TraEqui : 66   Experiencia : 0
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 12:58:15 am by FlandriaFussion »

Vos

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Re: Season 35. 'The climbing Gods'
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2017, 01:04:56 am »
My knowledge is limited about this subject ; but it seems Australia has a good generation on climbing.
Of course I cannot reveal their stats, because they are not my own cyclists.
But I can say something about this subject after the u21 NT races of next season.
The 19yo's who were in u21 NT race 1 and 3 ; difficult or even impossible to estimate that.

Swinson (USA, your cyclist) was the best in race 1, climb with flat, no real flatclimb.
However, at the start of the season there are just a few 19yo's.

In race 3, the pure climb race, Otte (GER, also your cyclist) was by far the best 19yo, the second best was De Haan (NL), more than a minute behind Otte, that is a lot.

But why it is impossible for me to estimate, is because of the tactics. For example, all Australian 19yo's were riding in a helpers role with all 5 start and some of them used a lot of EP in the descent of S2, and every 19yo used their last energy on the mountain in S3.
So the tactics makes a huge difference in the results. Next season it is way more easy to tell who are really good climbers and who is riding as a team captain.

What I do can reveal is the next generation of Australia, I posted that 2 days ago :
http://www.cyclingforfun.org/smf/index.php/topic,2555.msg274043.html#msg274043

Of course this is not very usefull information to this topic, because only the Australian NT managers know how the GV is calculated in these lists. But King, Aldrin, Coburn, Paxton, Madsen, Sand and so on could be real top climbers in their own way, some pure climb, some climbhills and so on.
But also this is hard or even impossible to predict ;
talent rating and how good a manager is training his talent, are major factors that have a big influence.


Vos

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Re: Season 35. 'The climbing Gods'
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2017, 01:20:19 am »
So my contribution to this topic is a bit of uselless, but I like this topic, so I tried to post something the best as I could.
Hopefully some other managers who are training climbers/ tour cyclists will react here.
Interesting for me to read, also for me interesting as U21 NT manager.

FlandriaFussion

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Re: Season 35. 'The climbing Gods'
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2017, 02:04:07 am »
The tactics on these two International races as Vos said played a role. Especially on race 3 which is the best thermometer of the two.

Otte was leader and the other cyclists were domestiques/free roles or maybe even didnt display efforts. Another ones really really good as Vilks, Gera or Zola weren't selected on that 3rd one. 

So we have not too much contrasted data for analyze properly. But we have signs...and the skills of good part of the greatest climbers on this generation. So i will continue showing it all. ;D
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 02:46:32 am by FlandriaFussion »

FlandriaFussion

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Re: Season 35. 'The climbing Gods'
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2017, 02:33:26 am »
If i posted Rafael Ojeda and Christian Meling now's the turn for two cyclists that i think must be the next on the pure climbers list, and that incidentaly ride for my team.

First of all;

- Hans Detleff Otte : Really Strong climber, good also on hills, so Grand Tour potential contender. As a pure climber on % rate i think he's the 2nd best on this generation after Ojeda and one step ahead Meling.
A weeks ago :

Hans-Detlef Otte   Edad : 19   Sueldo : 852
Resistencia : 68   Sprint : 4   Montaña : 69
LLano : 39   Pavés : 6   Tecnica : 60
Descenso : 64   Colinas : 50   Agresividad : 45
Crono : 7   TraEqui : 44   Experiencia : 0

Then.. a new signing for Flandria.

- The northamerican Patrick Saxon : He probably has the best engine of all Top cyclists named on this thread. Great Descent and good Technique too, but, he clearly lacks on TeamWork. If im not wrong he's the best USA climber for Bormio 2000 type stages.
This is him now :

Patrick Saxon   Edad : 19   Sueldo : 804
Resistencia : 71   Sprint : 19   Montaña : 69
LLano : 23   Pavés : 42   Tecnica : 53
Descenso : 68   Colinas : 27   Agresividad : 2
Crono : 35   TraEqui : 11   Experiencia : 2

So for me Ojeda, Otte, Meling and Saxon are maybe the 19 year old Big 4 for the hard mountain passes races right now.

But this can possibly being not correct. And yes, im thinking on Sacido's riders...  :P
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 02:44:44 am by FlandriaFussion »

WinterIsComing

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Re: Season 35. 'The climbing Gods'
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2017, 09:09:38 am »
Train them well, Flandria, and maybe we can swap a few cyclists in the future if you might be looking for a sprinter addition in your team  8)

Hans-Detlef Otte looks very promising. Did you already calculate the training talents of your cyclists?

Aurora_Australis

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Re: Season 35. 'The climbing Gods'
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2017, 11:37:36 am »
Don't know, but at least one of Sacido's 19 year olds has 3 stars in climbing, so you'll be hard pressed to beat that.

RealityCyclists

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Re: Season 35. 'The climbing Gods'
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2017, 12:13:36 pm »
Don't know, but at least one of Sacido's 19 year olds has 3 stars in climbing, so you'll be hard pressed to beat that.

Wow, that's quite impressive indeed. That will be really really hard to beat that guy!  ;D

WinterIsComing

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Re: Season 35. 'The climbing Gods'
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2017, 01:38:15 pm »
Don't know, but at least one of Sacido's 19 year olds has 3 stars in climbing, so you'll be hard pressed to beat that.

Wow, that's quite impressive indeed. That will be really really hard to beat that guy!  ;D

3 stars already? That almost has to be for flat-climbing. Downhill and technique don't count, flat and teamwork do. It's probably the most overrated icon in CFF. Imo, you are able to get an icon in that category much faster than on pure Climbing, and it is not worth as much.

Still, very impressive on such a young age.  8)

FlandriaFussion

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Re: Season 35. 'The climbing Gods'
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2017, 03:29:40 pm »
Sacido can have the stars he wants but he doesn't have someone like Otte xD  8)

He overall has the better team though. That's for sure. But nothing that can't be beaten.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 03:31:40 pm by FlandriaFussion »

FlandriaFussion

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Re: Season 35. 'The climbing Gods'
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2017, 03:32:32 pm »
Train them well, Flandria, and maybe we can swap a few cyclists in the future if you might be looking for a sprinter addition in your team  8)

Hans-Detlef Otte looks very promising. Did you already calculate the training talents of your cyclists?

Yes bro, I will need an sprinter domestique for the future. So yes we could negotiate ;D ;)
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 04:00:39 pm by FlandriaFussion »

FlandriaFussion

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Re: Season 35. 'The climbing Gods'
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2017, 03:35:01 pm »
Don't know, but at least one of Sacido's 19 year olds has 3 stars in climbing, so you'll be hard pressed to beat that.

Wow, that's quite impressive indeed. That will be really really hard to beat that guy!  ;D

3 stars already? That almost has to be for flat-climbing. Downhill and technique don't count, flat and teamwork do. It's probably the most overrated icon in CFF. Imo, you are able to get an icon in that category much faster than on pure Climbing, and it is not worth as much.

Still, very impressive on such a young age.  8)

The worst climber on my team in the last generation I had was the first to get *** stars. And true, was for Mountain - Plain.  So yes, its 'bit' :D overrated indicator.

FlandriaFussion

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Re: Season 35. 'The climbing Gods'
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2018, 09:05:50 am »
Yesterday on u21 was demonstrated that stars for Climbing Flat count too much...

75° +2'22"

xDDDDDD

Ricoo

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Re: Season 35. 'The climbing Gods'
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2018, 10:54:34 am »
Well, it also wasn't really a flat-climber stage.