Author Topic: U23 Australia S39  (Read 1799 times)

WinterIsComing

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Re: U23 Australia S39
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2018, 10:11:06 am »
Nice race, Vos. Keep up the good work.  :)

Vos

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Re: U23 Australia S39
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2018, 01:13:25 pm »
Thanks Dirk and WiC  :)

Vos

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Re: U23 Australia S39
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2018, 05:31:59 pm »
RACE 3 : Villacarrillo

25ºC

Puerto Lumbreras,
In 2007 this was a Vuelta stage, in the picture the peleton somewhere along the route of this stage in 2007.

I expect points in the hills of Spain, too bad there is some flat in it because team captain Pierre is even more suited for a pure hills race.
Perhaps one or two free roles, because a lot of hills specialists are selected, including two 20yo's.
Just 2 xp cyclists ; Owens and Warrenburg.

Australia u23 selection :

Bud Pierre (22) CC_Porco_Jones
Duke Madsen (22) RealityCyclists
Franklin Simpson (22) HorsCategorieProTeam
Oliver Lindsay (22) Periquitos
Terry Oar (21) VodkaJuniorsCycling
Mike Waithe (20) RHyNeStOnEs_BiKeRs
Cody Jordan (20) Kroton
Nick Owens (22) Sacido
Martin Warrenburg (21) Monster

Vos

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Re: U23 Australia S39
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2018, 09:35:32 pm »
Good job of helpers Madsen en Lindsay ; Pierre 5th and free role rider Simpson 15th.
Australia u23 again up two places in the ranking by countries and now on the 5th place.

Next week a race in the French Pyrenees.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 09:11:26 am by Vos »

Dirk

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Re: U23 Australia S39
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2018, 10:28:45 am »
Good result Vos  8)

Vos

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Re: U23 Australia S39
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2018, 06:13:15 pm »
Thanks Dirk  :)

Vos

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Re: U23 Australia S39
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2018, 08:48:17 am »
147 cyclists

Vos

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Re: U23 Australia S39
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2018, 12:07:55 pm »
RACE 4 : FRENCH PYRENEES


Le Pla d'Adet
28ºC

Lézat-sur-Lèze, France
Just one real xp-cyclist is selected and also there will be no free roles. Because tomorrow the teamcaptain is Owens.
And he needs all the support there is to achieve the main goal of this season, u23 individual world champion. That will not be easy to achieve and perhaps even unrealistic, but for now it is a goal worth to compete/ride for.

I really don't know what to expect. It seems to me Owens is good enough to score points, but in the mountain stage of the u21 two seasons ago not even one Australian cyclist scored points. Hopefully that does not happen again with this generation, Owens needs the points.
Well, it is a good experience for this selection to cycle these famous TdF mountains anyway.

And for the managers that have amazing Australian talents, and luckely there are a lot of them ;
no worries, they are for sure in the picture and more (semi)xp spots will come in the rest of this season.

Australia u23 selection :

Nick Owens (22) Sacido
George Embley (22) ItaliaCycling
Daley Power (22) Tramontana_
Keith Duffy (22) Ahorasi
Justin Farmer (21) OffTheFront
David Footman (22) Jylland
Isaac Carey (22) ADOLF97
Vince Alpin (20) FrançaiseDesJeux
Martin Warrenburg (21) Monster
« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 12:23:55 pm by Vos »

FlandriaFussion

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Re: U23 Australia S39
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2018, 12:44:25 pm »
Waiting for this. Owens vs Fohlmann vs Varlakov :P

I think Les Odom deserves race this one :P
« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 12:46:57 pm by FlandriaFussion »

WinterIsComing

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Re: U23 Australia S39
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2018, 12:49:50 pm »
Waiting for this. Owens vs Fohlmann vs Varlakov :P

I think Les Odom deserves race this one :P

Agreed on Odom  8)

Good luck, Vos.  :)

Vos

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Re: U23 Australia S39
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2018, 05:25:04 pm »
Waiting for this. Owens vs Fohlmann vs Varlakov :P

I think Les Odom deserves race this one :P

Agreed on Odom  8)

Good luck, Vos.  :)

Thanks  :)

Ok, with such reactions you can expect a long Fox-reply because as always my decisions are well thought out.

Just one xp spot left ;
and no, the 19yo Les Odom did not deserve this race as non-xp-cyclist, just like the best 21yo climber Chris White.
Both climbers are not suited for this race and in fact useless because of their very low flat. They will drop from the team captain in s1 and will not return in s2, even when I give them a 55200 tactic.
So, just as xp cyclists they can be selected.

And for sure they both are candidates for the one remaining xp spot in this race.
Odom even more than White, in my opinion.

But for that remaining xp spot there are a lot of candidates, who are just as useless in this race as they are.
And I saw them all this morning by clicking them, also because I made 3 NT lists (u23, u21 and u20).
What about the 19yo Laybutt ? Does he deserve a xp spot more than Odom ? Perhaps he does.
What about the 19yo Brown ? Great potential with his high agr. + tw.
Also some other awesome 19yo's are xp-candidates, and also some 20yo's and 21yo's.
What about u20 stage winners, who are now 21yo ?
Or what about very good cyclists who will be the u23 teamcaptain in one of the remaining races this season ?
And who already proved that they ride a lot in their team and their manager is training them very good. And also proved they can ride good results.

My original plan was to select the team captain of next week as xp cyclist.
But it is a bit of a mess with the u23 sprinters. Not that they are bad (one of them was 2nd in a u21 NT sprint race), but of the top 4 in the sprint list ; the numbers 1 and 3 ride for an in-active team, the number 2 does not ride at all in his team and the number 4 is transfer free. So no selection of next week's team captain, not an option in my opinion because there are a lot of xp candidates who deserve it more.

And although I had (luckely) a lot of choices for the last remaing xp spot ; the choice was easy after I studied them all.
That is a 21yo cyclist who is together with Owens by far the most experienced u23 cyclists. So, he rides a good amount of races in his team, also their manager trains him very well. And that 21yo won a u21 NT race and will be the "teamcaptain" in 2 weeks (race 6), so I better give him a xp spot before race 6 instead of afterwards.

And if you read my preview carefully, it reveals the main season goal.
That main season goal is not to give amazing 19yo's extra experience.
But I have always good eye for talent, my xp spots are always very well thought out, as you can hopefully read.
And often I select xp-cyclists because I can estimate pretty well if young Aussies are not good enough for a race and/or are not of use as helper. So giving young talents extra xp, is for sure one of my goals, as always. Often the most difficult choices who to select as xp cylists, but not this time, it was very easy.
As u21 NT manager I would select more 19yo as xp cyclists then I do as u23 NT manager, the reason is simple, as u23 NT manager I have way more xp candidates.

In my opion a bit naive to post here that Odom deserves to race this one without consulting me and even without arguments.

No problem at all of course, that this was posted, it has happened in the past and it will happen in the future.
And good everyone is involved and give their opinion, and sometimes it was a good advice to select someone I did not select yet.
But that is very rare, especially about the xp cyclists because those are always very well thought out choices.

Of course, when someone else is u23 NT manager, he would probably make different choices and for example select Odom as xp cyclist or even makes the mistake he can be of use in this race.
But someone else is not the u23 NT manager and I think I make good decisions in selecting cyclists. If not, you can critize me here, no problem, although the few times that that happened was by pm, and every time for sure not justified. What happened more was that when my selection was not complete, someone posted here or wrote by pm why I did not select a cyclist. Sometimes that was good advice, more times it was not.

To avoid this long fox-text I had written in my preview :
And for the managers that have amazing Australian talents, and luckely there are a lot of them ;
no worries, they are for sure in the picture and more (semi)xp spots will come in the rest of this season.


By the way, the 19yo Les Odom was in my top 3 of xp cyclists after studying them all.
But not on number 1 and there was just one xp spot left. Again, to me the choice was easy and I m the u23 NT manager.  :)
And that Les Odom was in the top 3 this time, does not mean he will be again in the top 3 next time. This was a mountain stage for example, so next time he will drop because I have lots of xp-choices, but on the other hand, I passed him this time as xp cyclist and he is for sure an awesome talent and xp cyclists who are passed are getting higher in my "xp-ranking-list". I look at that every week with a fresh point of view, so who will be xp cyclists in the remaining races of this season is not known by me.

But sometimes it is easy to predict ; for example the 19yo Jason Brown will be selected for next week's race, but he will be a semi-xp-cyclist than, and Les Odom is not a semi-xp cyclist in this mountain stage because of his very low flat. In this selection there is one bit of a semi-xp cyclist, and that is the only 20yo, who is suited for this race but of course not good enough with his age. Also some 22yo's and 21 yo's were slightly beter as him, but many reasons they are not selected, and besides that I rather give a selection to a better cyclist who is one year younger and has 0,3 GV less in this race and is also not in the top of the GV selection.

By the way, it is never in a random order I post the selection, it is in the order of my own GV calculations. I always have done that, if not, I write aside that it is in random order. Of course, not always my calculated GV is entirely correct, but when the number 5 of the selection is better than the number 3, it does not automaticaly mean that my GV calculations were not good, the tactics can be of a big influence. Only I can see afterwards if the GV calculations were not entirely correct, what often happens, mostly with tiny differences. But no problem to me, my tactics are not based on GV calculations, that is just a little part of the tactics because how I make tactics is just as complicated and very well thought out as my xp-selections.  ;)

Pffffffff, criticize without arguments the best NT manager Australia ever had.........
..... that for sure deserves a long Fox"zemel" text.  :))

ps ; don't make the mistake as some people on the Dutch forum always do ;
I'm not upset or have some other kind of negative feelings, and it also does not botter me at all that others think that Odom deserves to race this stage. In fact, the opposite, I like it a lot when people give their opinion in this topic and think along, also now when I do not agree. And it has also the benefit that now I have a good excuse to write a long Fox-text.   ;)  :P   :D  :-*

Vos

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Re: U23 Australia S39
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2018, 05:58:37 pm »
edit ; I selected Les Odom as xp cyclist when he was just 1 day in this game, for sure he is not overlooked by me.
Real xp-cyclists are also selected ; Pierre (hills), Warrenburg (flat-TT) and the 19yo of the latest draft, Odom (climb).

Aurora_Australis

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Re: U23 Australia S39
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2018, 06:03:10 pm »
When I've been NT manager, I've always liked to rotate my XP cyclists between deserving candidates, to encourage more decent managers to select Aussie cyclists in their team; and also to encourage the managers to gain experience for the cyclists as well, instead of mainly relying on NT races (like some high tier managers do).

Btw: Interesting note, only 149 current managers have raced 5 cyclists in every race in even one season, which is surprising given the (almost) free boost it gives cyclists.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 06:09:03 pm by Aurora_Australis »

FlandriaFussion

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Re: U23 Australia S39
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2018, 06:09:26 pm »
Vos. I dont think excepting Owens you have a rider on that list with Les Odom climbing potential. I dont think that 9th place as you call "xp cyclist" is that important for the group and tactics.

I mean doesnt matter if he drops on Sector 1. He's on his terrain that it's high mountain, and on that scenario he's the best young australian rider by far. He's maybe the best australian climber ever on CFF.

I base my last 2 spot selections on this. On quality and potential. I don't care if a 22 year old rider that will maybe never play a role for the national team pass 2 sectors attaching or going ahead the team captain. That's the job for the rest, for the other 7 riders. Almost always i select the potential best rider among all ages for the stage.

It seems you have a different vision on that and i respect it ofc. You're more experienced than me and also i'm currently on the last place of the ABS national team class.

Maybe i have lot of things to learn yet, or maybe my point is also a valid and coherent option.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 06:15:38 pm by FlandriaFussion »

Aurora_Australis

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Re: U23 Australia S39
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2018, 06:22:06 pm »
I wouldn't have selected Odom in this race, even for XP.